Metroids + Water = Challenge
Most of the week I´ve been fixing all the little thigs that I broke when I changed the water physics. Some behaviors depended on the (now slower) vertical speed, and some others were still slow even with the gravity suit on. I also tweaked some minor details, like the timing required for walljumping, now it´s a little easier to pull off, even under water.
I´m starting to populate Area 5 with enemies, Metroids, and some surprises. Underwater Metroid fights are quite challenging, but not unfair. Luckily, you won´t have to fight too many Metroids before you find the Gravity suit.
I´m starting to populate Area 5 with enemies, Metroids, and some surprises. Underwater Metroid fights are quite challenging, but not unfair. Luckily, you won´t have to fight too many Metroids before you find the Gravity suit.
Some of the room layouts had to be changed a lot. By the time you get the Power Bombs, the enemies aren´t much of a challenge. So I had to rely a little more on environmental hazards (well, spikes) to keep things interesting.
There are some scripted events left to do, a miniboss, and some tile and background work to finish Area 5. After that, it´s just the Omegas Nest and the Queen´s Lair left to make. Compared to the rest of the areas, those two are very simple, level layout wise.
Like always, comments and forum discussion is welcome.
Comments
Just keep the difficulty balanced. Don't fall into the trap of making the game too hard since you're the creator. Playtest with others and get a balanced view of results.
Just an idea, though.^^
Nice work!
Not experiencing the water effects without the gravity suit was one of my minor complaints with the other games, like Super Metroid, where you only had to deal with it a little bit, and if you played your abilities right, you didn't have to deal with it at all.
I think as long as the underwater physics are inhibitive but not frustrating, having some longer non-gravity suit underwater exploration will provide some new entertaining challenge.
Just in case you acquire the screw attack before the gravity suit, Not having it work underwater without the gravity suit would provide a nice challenge.
Buena suerte con el proyecto Doc.
Also I agree with the Tallon Metroid being the Aqua one, my only thought is make it look a little different, maybe with longer tallons, or even more of them to make it look more jelly fish like, maybe even give it an electric attack of some kind. Could even call it a gamma metroid since i believe the other forms are alpha, beta, zeta, and omega.
I only say change the look because to me if you were to fight normal metroids there it would kindof take away from finding the normal ones so close to the queen. When those last like 5 or so show up on your radar before the queen fight it was like "oki im getting close to the sorce of these things" cause they were younger and not mutated like all the other metroids around there.
Also if they did take on an eariler stage look of the metroids it could be explained, like they were a handful of newly hatched metroids that found and adapted to water. BTW cant wait to see the new sprite for the queen! ^-^
I wholeheartedly agree with Gridlock about the enemies. There are many things you can do to improve the difficulty of enemies as the game progresses, and I'm sure we'd all appreciate that. Some Metroid games can be too easy or too hard; I prefer a medium between the two. More fun, and rewarding, that way. ^_^
Water graphics sound, and look, great. I was a tad bit worried about wall-jumping underwater; Glad to know it CAN be done.
I'm very interested in seeing the Omega Metroids; hopefully you will be able to show us them sometime in the near future. A question regarding them; I heard you say they would be more like their Fusion counterparts; Will they retain some of their RoS abilites, like levitation? Or not?
As always, I eagerly anticipate more news regarding this project. I check the page every day. Keep up the good work, Doc.
-Mesonak
This should be interesting.
Again, great job, and I eagerly anticipate updates.
-Mesonak
he visto ke el avanse del juego es muy rapido, lei sobre el nuevo reto de tratar de destruir a un metroi bajo el agua, con el movimiento reducido, va a costar mucho. pero eso es lo bueno de los juegos los retos dificiles ya ke los hace interesantes.
bueno doc ojala ke todo salga bien y ke el avanse del juego siga tan bien como va hasta ahora. xao
WINOX
One question, though...
When do you find the Glitch Suit or the Jelly Beam?
You're breathing life to the autistic child of the Metroid Franchise.
I'm so excited!
Chris said:
"Beautiful work.
You're breathing life to the autistic child of the Metroid Franchise.
I'm so excited!"
Since when has "the metroid series" needed to be given NEW LIFE. Thats one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. The series is still going strong to this day. What is wrong with you people? Oh right nostalgia goggles. Go play some Super metroid rom hack for an emulator and come to terms that the new direction that the metroid series is going IS fine and doesn't need fan REMAKES or remixes of the same damn thing we all played when we were younger.
Next?
Last I checked, a remake is probably the MOST related thing somebody could make. Better than a fangame with the storyline "ono x parasites hav returned KILL THEM ON PLANET GABRILAXO!11one" Also unrelated characters makes me lol. If you followed this blog, or bothered to read the title, you'd know that this is a remake with EXACTLY THE SAME CHARACTERS.
"Do all of you people really want to see the SAME games they made since the Super NES, Gameboy, and GBA? I don't."
Yeah, I'd like to see a game that wasn't all too great updated with graphics, playablity, and COLOR FOR GODS SAKE. The same game? This is turning out to be better than Metroid II could ever hope to be.
Next up:
Do you even know what a "Rom hack?" is? I don't think you do. This isn't a rom hack. Get your facts straight.
"Since when has "the metroid series" needed to be given NEW LIFE. "
Um, I think a game with horrible graphics, even worse playability, inability to crouch or fire diagonally, and no color needs some new life.
You're right about the series going strong, but Metroid's slowly becoming a generic first person shooter game. As awesome as that is, 2D is where the games need to go, imho. I'd understand your point if somebody wanted to remake Super Metroid for no reason, as some people are doing, or remake Metroid Fusion, but when you think about when Metroid II was released, and the quality of it, New Life is needed.
You keep saying we don't need a remake of Metroid II, but keep in mind what game we're talking about here.
-Mesonak
Saludos!
Whoa there. Take it easy chief. Do you understand how old concepts die out and new ones are innovated? Of course you do. Thats why this is pointless. Metroid II is an old game that although from you're point of view may be "underrated" is nonetheless obsolete and no longer part of the direction Metroid games are going. You clearly want to see the same game made again (but with nicer GRAFIX) I get that, but you're stupid to think its going to suddenly revolutionize the industry or metroid fans everywhere are going to realize its glory from across the Ocean near the island of Japan. Oh and whats this? They don't care? Weird. Its like other really cool independent publishers have made games over there that have grown to a cult status in North America as well! A game called "Cave Story," ring a bell? That one person made a brilliant 2-D game that didn't take it self seriously and borrowed from many older games including, but not directly inspired by 2-d platforms for example: Metroid. It was a wholehearted attempt to make something based on lots of other great portions of older games.
ALSO
"A sort of unrelated tribute to metroidvania style games with unrelated characters"
Because a comma/ or an "and" was missing from that sentence it came across incorrectly if you read it.
So my bad
I was actually saying.. gee wouldn't it be awesome if someone could make a game inspired by such games in the metroidvania vein of gameplay. THAT WOULD BE REALLY COOL. A guy who spends 3-4 years (maybe) pulling sprites from a gba game to release a game that NOBODY by now will care about is a waste of time and foolish. Honestly? The old games were great, unmatched in their 2-Dimensional prowess and gameplay. However, its when people that love that idea take it to a whole new level i.e. Metroid Prime series- that things start to get more interesting. For goodness sakes more and more people have become fans of metroid since this transition. Just admit it. You have nostalgia goggles on WAY to tight to tell whats wrong or right when it comes to the treatment of an old boring game that many people still find difficult to compare with the rest of the series.
First off, I was never "angry" or showing a display of "Internet ignorance." I was making a point; Sorry if it came off as being angry.
I'm very hard to get riled up; Don't think you're going to be the one who finally gets me mad. =P
Now, onto your points:
Now, I never said anything about revolutionizing people. I'm not stupid enough to think for a minute that this game is going to do that.
I think my comments put me in a light of some nostalgia-fueled guy who thinks everything new is trash and new ideas should not be taken; That's not my stance. I loved the Prime Trilogy, I loved the gameplay they introduced, and I loved what they did to our beloved Metroid. It's just my opinion that the 2D games were better. While we're on this subject, about Other M: Lol, you think I'm not going to enjoy it? You're dead wrong about that. From the moment the first trailer was revealed at E3 last year, I was hyped beyond belief. I like the chance they're taking by incorporating melee moves and 3rd person gameplay; I can safely say I'll have just as much fun playing it as you will. ;D
I'm not one of those people who values nostalgia more than anything; Quite the contrary, actually. It'd take a lot of links, but you can ask most of my online friends. Nostalgia means little, if anything, to me. What I meant was that I felt Metroid II could have been a lot better, and Doc here has taken the time to improve said game and make it more enjoyable for fans of metroid today, those new fans you mention that maybe don't have access to it.
I think we should both stop drawing comparisons between AM2R and the Metroid games of today; Fact is, this game is made by ONE PERSON, give and take a few spriters who helped him out along the way by making various enemies and such. Making comparisons between that and Nintendo's uber-team isn't really fair.
@The whole unrelated thing: Yeah, that would be pretty cool. However, I don't think nobody cares about it. The amount of publicity this HAS gotten, and the amount of fans of this blog should clue you in on that. I don't think that every fanmade game needs to "revolutionize people across the world" to become a success.
This is why this remake is so cool; The comment about not being able to compare this with the rest of the series, that was one major problem with the original Metroid II. This remake helps people experience the game but with many new things and updated GRAFIX, as you put it. =P
Ahh, it feels so good to have some intelligent conversation for once.
-Mesonak
Okay we're on even ground. I can't turn you're sole opinion or the opinions of this forum. I'm okay with that. Good points, but remember that this is a minor project that has some had the off chance (thus far) of not being sued to oblivion by a much larger Company. To be honest its why the last metroid remake failed and the one before that, etc. Its sad to see great ideas suddenly turned and hunted down for no real reason other than a some short Asian man yelling "cropyrite in afringment!" My poor attempts at giving an asian man crappy english accent aside, all I'm saying is if someone really wanted to do something that would please fans of multiple genres- it would be to make something completely original. Perhaps when the full game is complete it may be a very fresh look at an otherwise overlooked game, but in the end its more of the same to me. That's what is the most frustrating. In the end 3rd party or re-envisioned ideas of games similar to Metroid Fusion and Metroid Prime will always be far more interesting than Metroid Zero Mission or any other various remake solely because it attempted to evolve a character devoid of any character, personality and actual human nature for once. Which is why a remake of a frighteningly old title will most certainly be enjoyed by people that monitor this board or keep up with news about the project, but not the people looking for a new experience built upon older methods. Its all about the evolution of games in the end. That is why I despise remakes. The end. Thank you.
Oh, my bad. I thought I was looking at some sort of "fangame-with-profit", or something.
Really, I see your point about new ideas games, and about how no one wants to play a remake, but I don't think Dr M64 was really expecting many to. I stick around here because I'd like to play the remade game, not because I want something new or exciting.
When you think about it, it really could be worse. The sprites are (mostly) not ripped from Fusion, the effects are unique, the beam system looks like it will be very in depth and all, and generally the project is looking very professional.
Finally, I didn't really like MZM that much either. I don't think it had enough of the "alien" feeling that made Metroid 1 so grand.
(plus it was easy as ****)
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that others won't. If I had seen Modern Warfare and not known how it would end up, I would have called it a boring "more of the same" fps and described why I had no interest in it. I still don't like it, but it's hard to argue with the fanbase that it has. Obviously my tastes don't apply to everyone and the same goes for you.
We keep "Space Jumping" ;)
You're right. Its sounds like you have shittier taste than me. Their was a good reason why you couldn't stomach the original mechanics. Their was nothing their really. Heres a quick summary.
U R SAMUS U JUS FOUND OUT YOU GIRL! HOLREE SHIT YOU ON PLANET SR388 GO SHOOT METROD WITH MISSILL GET SPIDA BALL THEN FIGHT BIG THING WITH LONG NECK AND TEETH. U BEAT METROD OH ROOK A HATCHED METROID!
THE END?????????
The limitations of the original gameboy are obvious now, but Super Metroid actually gave that game a story and attempted to connect it to the rest of series when their was practically nothing interesting about it to begin with. I respect that.
I really have no idea where you're drawing the Modern Warfare comparison from. If anyone from the current fanbase knew how samey same they've all been since the first Call Of Duty they'd maybe rethink all the startling glorified positive reviews, drop the series and realize that lackluster Multiplayer or a 5 hour single player campaign- aren't worth the money they payed for it. I can dream can't I? Whatever bro we obviously didn't play the same game 19 years ago. So what then? The remake comes out and maybe some people on 4chan will talk about it and then they'll criticize the hell out of it and it'll drop off into the abyss of time and space. Congratulations. I have no problem with one person basically re tailoring a game to make it another metroid game we haven't played a thousand times, but the source material isn't particular strong. Sure their is some interesting stuff in the metroid universe, the growth of metroid's, and their evolutions blah blah. However, the more mystery behind all of that, the better the games are. Plus borrowing mechanics and elements from games and then writing a completely new story makes things way more fascinating. So at least its got that going for it. Just one example before I go of something that for no reason still intrigues me (although I could be looking into it a bit to deeply):
Their is a part in the original super metroid where right before you fight Kraid, just outside the boss room, theirs an unknown dead being in a suit similar to yours. It always made me curious why that was put into the game, as if their was some more famous story/battle that Samus was not a part of. Maybe even a whole story to why that body is there.
Yet, the likelihood of ever seeing a new unrelated story come out of the Metroid universe grows less likely the more remakes are encouraged, promoted, and bought. Even if this one is free. Its the principle man. Its the freakin' principle of the thing.
Dude- Metroid Fusion was basically an alternate dimension metroid game that felt like reading a half-decent fan fiction plot. It borrowed elements and mechanics from the older titles and made up its own story, even if its a tad ridiculous and doesn't really fit into the storyline. Thats okay though at least it was a good experiment that turned out much better than expected.
A game that is actually an original concept that borrows from the Metroid universe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYLCFO1EdlU&feature=related
Now on to your debate. You still don't understand that this is a REMAKE. Metroid II was a horrible game, but had a good plot and potential. It is very important to the entire story of the Metroid series as a whole. The game had a horrible engine. It was too slow paced and didn't even feature some basic movements. Doc is doing an excellent thing here. He is giving the game the life it needed. Updating graphics, expanding the areas to explore, adding more items, adding water physics and underwater metroid fights, mostly using his own sprites, and adding cutscenes. Its more than you're giving it credit for. There are old Metroid fans eager to play a good remake of an old game than could have been better, and newer Metroid fans hoping to play and a game that was before there time. This game tends to everybody's desires.
Now I wish you to take this advise. Respect that other people have different opinions and actually enjoy this remake unlike you. If you have nothing esle to do other than troll this thread and bash somebody's work, then get out of here.
I have no further word on this discussion as I have what is to be said. I will not respond to more of your nonsense.
Good day.
btw [The owner and/or moderator of a domain, wiki, or blog is aloud to set their own rules and permit who does or does not use it]
Nobody gives a shit IMO. I don't and quite frankly nobody else does.
Incidentally, I think the game brings a lot of new things to the series. No one else seems to have noticed how great the beam effect looks, but it really is awesome; not to mention the creative ideas about how the different beams work. The artistic direction of the music has an insane amount of possibility and potential because of the ambient nature of the original soundtrack, and we still don't know about the new story elements.
You've made excellent points, Samuel, but I think a certain amount of optimism is reserved from projects that even make it as far as AM2R has.
Sincerely.
-a rational poster
Hey i just wanted to thank the guy working on this thing! I look forward to someday playin the final cut so to speak :-)
Anyway, back on topic. Progress is looking excellent. I'm predicting it reales this year, hopefully in the summer. Please consider my earlier idea about using a giant Tallon Metroid with larger teeth and/or tenatcles rather than an Alpha Metroid for underwater battles.
Honestly, I'm not sure where all these comments are coming from. There's only five types of comments that should be here:
1)Comments about how awesome Doc's progress is.
2)Comments about the new water stuff.
3)Comments about the underwater Metroid fights.
4)Comments about some random new idea for the game.
5)Comments debating previous comments in a -civil- manner.
If your comment doesn't fall into one of those categories, then why are you here? Read a book. Play video games. Get a job. I don't know and I don't care. Just don't do it HERE.
The same could be said of all Humans!
Yo Mad doc! How you been man! Having fun keeping up your little private forum?
MY milkshake brings all the boys to the barn..
That's what you sound like anon. What the heck is wrong with you???
A BUNCH O STUFF.
You trolling. Just in case you're not trolling and you really are as retarded as you're post sounds- I'm here posting because I can. I don't give a shit about you or anybody on this forum I'm doing it since I can and its not very time consuming or difficult to piss off a load of opinionated 12 to 15 year olds who believe they are totally in the right about their opinions.
Wtf...
Also, please consider using tallon metroids or very large metroid hatchlings for underwater fights. fighting alpha metroids underwater would be boring.
Find the "secret beam name" (If they is a secret beam in the game)
Complete the game without the screw attack
Defeat # "metroid name" with only charged ice beam shots (If possible)
Complete the game without the gravity suit
And many others...
On the last two levels:
It would be neat if you could translate the trick to make Queen eat you and bomb her insides to beat her.
Also, the escape in the original is too anticlimactic. It doesnt need an escape timer but it should be more perilous. Maybe some enemies the the larva can help you fight or anything that can make you feel trapped and that the larva actually saves samus. I felt like i just walked out.
Of course it's not going to be any time soon, but I'm just throwing it out there. :P
-Mesonak
You don't like the new wall jump because it's too easy to perform? That's like a guy who had his arm chopped off getting it back and saying he liked the prosthetic better. Screwed up right? Exactly.
I love the old games too, and mastered everything, but unlike you, I recognize progress for what it is: progress.
would you agree that if a game is too easy and dont offer a challenge it wouldnt be very fun to play? Cause all im saying is that it takes the fun out of it by being less challenging to perform those techniques. Cause i remember feeling like the man when i finally got the technique down to be able to wall jump and being able to ninja my way around levels. it was mean fun. But if its not a challenge to do it no ones gonna be impressed when you wall jump off heaps of things to get to a place without touching the ground cause they can do it as well. So i guess it takes out the showing off capabilities as well as not being as much fun to play