To escape or not to escape (sequence)
In the last post there was a very interesting suggestion by Palamon: A final escape sequence after the Queen fight. It´s true, the planet is succeptible to earthquakes caused by Metroids, and killing the biggest one of them all could easily cause some disaster.
Ok, but you (supposedly) have Gravity Suit by the time you reach the end, and lava isn´t much of a threat now. If the escape is going to be dramatic, it should be more menacing than lava and some falling rocks. And making so would deviate too much from the original game, IMHO. The moment you first see the hatchling, and peacefully reach the surface is a classic scene.
I might consider making an escape sequence for "Challenge Mode", a special mode for hardcore players. I´d like to hear your oppinions about this.
About the progress: I´m starting with the AI of the Zeta Metroids. I had to make a custom animation system, since there are separate body parts with different numbers of frames. Using the built-in variables was impossible.
Right now the Zetas can only walk, soon they´ll have some cool attacks (as soon as I start animating those). All of my time is being dedicated to these creatures, so there wasn´t much progress in the level design part.
Sorry for the lack of updates, there´s not much to report lately, since a single enemy animation and AI takes too much time to make so little progress. Like always, comments and suggestions are welcome.
Ok, but you (supposedly) have Gravity Suit by the time you reach the end, and lava isn´t much of a threat now. If the escape is going to be dramatic, it should be more menacing than lava and some falling rocks. And making so would deviate too much from the original game, IMHO. The moment you first see the hatchling, and peacefully reach the surface is a classic scene.
I might consider making an escape sequence for "Challenge Mode", a special mode for hardcore players. I´d like to hear your oppinions about this.
About the progress: I´m starting with the AI of the Zeta Metroids. I had to make a custom animation system, since there are separate body parts with different numbers of frames. Using the built-in variables was impossible.
Right now the Zetas can only walk, soon they´ll have some cool attacks (as soon as I start animating those). All of my time is being dedicated to these creatures, so there wasn´t much progress in the level design part.
Sorry for the lack of updates, there´s not much to report lately, since a single enemy animation and AI takes too much time to make so little progress. Like always, comments and suggestions are welcome.
Comments
Nice project! I think this is so awesome. I have a similar project for Prime, if you want, check it out at http://mp2dnew.blogspot.com/
Then you could have an escape sequence PRIOR to finding the hatchling, as without the Gravity Suit lava poses a threat. Once you get to the surface area the lave could stop, having filled ALL the caverns. Then on the surface before you get to your ship, you find the egg.
Either way you should end the game with only the items you have at the start of Super Metroid.
As for any additional/revamped content, that's phenomenal and perfect for a "challenge" mode!
Maybe alter the map a bit so that you're thrown into an escape immediately after fighting the Queen, going along a new alternate route, and having it end when you reach the Metroid hatchling?
That reminds me of something else, though. In the original, the hatchling allows you to escape by cutting through some strange blocks that are in your way. I always thought that those blocks were some kind of hard resin that the metroids built their hives out of, much like the alien nest in "Aliens." This would explain why the baby metroid can melt through it and Samus can't, since it has the natural ability to modify that stuff.
So, could you make the queen's lair look all organic and gigeresque, and have the hatchling melt through some walls of bony resin?
Also, excellent project, it looks very promising. The fact that you're doing it with Game Maker is even more impressive. I'd love to see the codes you use for some tricky functions in Metroid.
I think that metroid2 is quite playable, and that you should add alot of details and things that could make the game more interesting for the people who already played metroid2, I think your going on the right direction with that already. Good luck!
Espero que te tomes en cuenta mi comentario.
Me disculpas por ponerlo en español.
For example.
Have the classic Metriod 2 sequence with running baby metroid to the surface and have the original end and make things seem hunky dory, everythings fine until you take off when the meta ridley has been stalking you throughout the game looking for the moment to strike and finds that time to attack your ship as you fly away from the planet. Escape sequence after a new boss battle and hop into an escape pod?
I'm not sure if thats what you'd like to do... but just an idea. I kinda like having the obligatory escape sequence in metroid games personally, but I could do with a more tribute to metroid 2 instead.
Either way you're doing an amazing job and applaud you! Keep up the good work!!
on the challenge mode only.
perhaps you could
make Samus revert to her Zero suit for this challenge?
that way everything kills SUPER fast.
But in any case
I am glad to see there is progress
even if its just some wonderful AI.
Samus needs time to realize that the metroid is harmless.
The only way the queen would be able to start an escape sequence would be that it had grown so much that it has got stuck in that passage. The walls have been weakened by erosion and when Samus kills the queen it's body is not anymore supporting the weight of the structures above it. The place starts falling apart.
This could actually happen after meeting the infant metroid, "You kill the queen. You see the ceiling over it shatter a bit. You go to the next room. You meet the baby metroid. You see the rest of the ceiling, above the way back to the queen, fall down blocking the way back. Time to escape."
Now that I came up with that, I'm not sure about my answer anymore. Your choice.
Good Luck
Having an escape sequence doesn't necessarily mean that entire planet/ecosystem the metroids are living in has to be destroyed.
I dont see a problem with having an escape sequence from a "cave in". Samus escaping through an exit by the skin of her teeth as the ceiling crumbles around her, is a great idea for challenge mode imo.
Challange mode sounds fun though, so feel free to deviate as much as you want from the original there.
Hope things work out well for you. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Oy
If it sounds fun, try it.
If it is fun, keep it.
If it's not fun, junk it.
If you really want a count down, put it in the middle of the game.
There's that one point in the original where your forced to loop around a zone to clear it out a second time, that might be a good place for a count down. The lava has already come up to trap you...
Have the baby metroid clear some passages for you to move forward, as in the original. But also have rooms full of flying enemies that the baby metroid is afraid to pass (they're quite vulnerable as larvae). When you get to those places, have it hang back and make really cute "scared" noises until Samus kills them, at which point it chirps happily and keeps leading the way.
Would be a great way of putting more daaaaaaw in the sequence, and makes the return to Samus' ship more of a cooperative effort between the two, since they each remove different obstacles.
i'd really appreciate it :3
I personally like the idea of it being a challenge mode thingie. :)
Mayhaps, challenge mode is a little more super metriod, with the possible sequence breaking. Or maybe you revamp some of the rooms, changing the gameplay some.
My personal favorite thing about SM was sequence breaking. It let me play the game at my own pace. (and then replay it again at a different pace)
How about, when playing in Challenge Mode and finally defeating the Queen, her final attack disrupts your suit upgrades, as you are about to leave with the hatchling the lava starts rising and of course you need to get without the upgrades, with hatchling removing certain obstacles out of the way.
However what if in that new area under area 4 when you get the item at the end it does something like...
!!security compromised!!
And that area starts to blow up
It would be even cooler to go back and check that place out after it blows for more secrets
As always what ever you decide to go with is fine with me and I cant wait to play. :D
-bobsam-
"Challenge"-Countdown
"Hard"(If one)-A little earth quake happens and the route is blocked off anf you have to find another way to get to the ship
"Normal"-The Normal escape route(If Hard doesn't exsist this escape would be the same as "Hard")
"Easy"-The Normal escape route
Continue the good work doc!
As far as the escape sequence goes, I think keeping the tranquil slow ending for normal game play while having an escape sequence in Challenge/Hard Mode is a great idea.
That way, it keeps that nostalgia of M2 the first time you play with a gentle exploration of the final area as you leave, but when you go back for a second time, looking for a greater challenge, the game doesn't end anti-climatically as you just go through the motions with no new challenges.
Either way, there should be a quite, tranquil moment between killing the queen and finding the hatchling. Just right after finding the hatchling and breathing a sigh of relief that the tough part is over, then you realize that those earthquakes was part of a large cave in or volcanic eruption and you have to get out of there.
If there is a nature-caused escape sequence, I don't think there should be a timer. I think it would be cool to have the escape sequence actually kill you through lava/rock damage if you take too long.
As for the gravity suit, remember, the gravity suit doesn't protect you from all lava damage. In Super metroid, the bubbly orange lava in Ridely's Lair (that killed the chrocmire) dealt damage to you. In the final area, the lava could be that.
The metroid nest could be in the middle of a dormant volcano. The space jumping area right after the final save spot would suggest that it is part of the main chamber that has been sealed off.
That way, in the escape sequence, you are running from super-heated lava which will damage you.
As for the escape sequence itself, I liked how the larva could cut through special blocks and I really liked the idea of the blocks being hard resin and making the queen's lair look all organic and grotesque.
This way, you can calmly learn how to direct the larva's movement as you navigate the maze to get out on normal mode, but when you play it again "timed" in Hard mode, it will be more a test of skill.
However...
I actually support the suggestion of making samus lose (most) of her items when the ending sequence happens, even in the tranquil original version. In Metroid Prime 1, a small reactor blast did this to her in regards to the power ups she had from Metroid 1. (This was retconned a bit with the addition of Zero Mission, but still). Perhaps when the Queen dies, she either deals one last unexpected attack, or maybe can cause a massive explosion that damages most of samus' items (save perhaps the spider ball and the space jump.)
It'd be a nice way to show a bit of continuity between Metroid II and Super Metroid.
The non-challenge mode(s) should be just like the original game.
sorry for the spelling
The Queen Metroid's destruction casues her to explode so violently that Samus is knocked back against the wall and damaged to the point where she begins receiving internal readings that all acquired upgrades to her suit have been eliminated to compensate for the damage. (This would explain why she begins with nothing in Super Metroid. Hey, they did it in Metroid Prime, why not here?) She also begins receiving internal readings of increased seismatic activity due to the Queen Metroid's destruction that will cause a massive volcanic eruption in her local area in three minutes. Samus is now forced to escape with her life with none of the upgrades she started out with. Lava and falling rocks WILL be a problem!
Once she reaches and enters her ship, the baby Metroid reappears either from the splitting surface of the planet or from somewhere offscreen and follows her in just as the hatch closes, as if to say "Help me, mommy, get me out of here!"
Samus' ship takes off, and the rest is history. Final cutscene, roll the credits, see you next mission! :)
-RBM
In the Queen fight, I'm assuming the ball bombing in the belly trick will be in there (too cool to not include it)
For the 100% run, make it so the Queen does not swallow you, so you can't take the easy way out with that trick and have to kill her harder attack pattern with just missiles; so at least concept wise, using all those missiles to kill the queen will definitely cause a cave in and thus an escape sequence.
Speaking of % runs and bombing the belly trick, I really hope a 15% (or other low % run) will be planned for in the game like it was in zero mission. I really enjoyed it and it really brought in the re-playability.
Also, while having an escape sequence might be cool, the relaxed, scenic exit is a must-have. The idea of having an escape sequence after the queen and before the egg, though creative, would probably feel out of place, not to mention nonsensical (why would the egg chamber not be near the queen?).
Best leave the escape for Hard Mode.
i want to play the gamee
I've been following you project since the beginning and I cannot wait until you finish it! It's truly going to be amazing!
You could have the space pirats arrive and fight your way out- possibly with the help of the hatchling. After all, how did the pirats know the hatchling would be at the science station?
some people have suggested that you loose your gear, I suggest you loose gear in increments as you 'sustain damage' on your way out. Thus, the fights continue to get harder as you escape.
Yes, the hatchling seqence was classic, but I think this option will combine both the classic feel and a challenge that longtime players would love.
And yes, it ought to be unlocked in hard mode only. Thus preserveing the replay value.
About your escape sequence idea, I think you have it spot on! I think that it should stay true to the classic game, and not have a countdown, just because that was the whole point of the original. However, an optional countdown escape sequence - a really difficult one - would be amazing.
Keep up the good work, anyway :)
Metroid 2 is a boss rush in its self... metroid after metroid after metroid... you never know when they will pop out
Are you going to have a fan art submission for the endings or are you just going to get help like you did with hyrule_swordsman?
The remake could have similar instances where the metroid doesn't show up on the first time past the area, but when you are forced to back track (like after killing another metroid at the end) you encounter a metroid that was hiding on your first pass through. This would be a nice scripted surprise to challenge mode.
Another interesting idea would be to have an area where the metroid hangs out (like 3-4 adjacent rooms) and each room has a set random chance that a metroid encounter occurs, so you never know where the metroid will show up.
Obviously, some tweaks to the occurrence % should be done to insure the player will encounter the beast on the normal pass through the region so they don't have to "hunt down" the random encounter like you would with RPG's. I think that would add a neat random element to certain areas.
You can make the rooms darker or with less color as you go deeper underground. That would be a cool and creepy effect.
And do beams stack or can you get an upgrade to stack them?
no encuentro buena la idea de crear un escape para am2r ya que el verdadero metroid 2 no lo tiene, y se romperia la enorme serenidad que uno siente en el encuentro amistoso entre Samus y el bebé Metroid (que más tarde se sacrifica por ella en Metroid 3), lo que con más ansias espero es la remasterización de esa parte del encuentro, si lo rompen, no solo para mí perderá el gusto, sino que yo creo que también para muchos que valoran Metroid 2 como el mejor de los juegos de metroid por aquel encuentro...
La música que más me gusta de ese Metroid (y todos los días escucho en mp3, es la música de La Guaridad de la Reina Metroid (Queen Metroid's Lair), ojalá puedan crear la música de este sector tan excelentemente como lo hicieron en el Metroid 2 original, y que al oirla uno sienta la misma emosión, ya que ese sector de SR388 equivale a Turian de Zebes, también hay Metroids y hay una gran sensación de estar acercandose más y más al final, ya que la cantidad de los Metroid está cerca de cero.
Saludos
Sir_Poeta.
Ive never played the original but from what ive heard it is awesome as it is allready
Keep the ending the same. Do everything they do in the game, even the slow fade when you enter the ship.
Now, to answer the dilemma of "its metroid so it should have piretes and ridly and an escape countdown!' is thus; add a 'lost chapter.'
Maybe Samus is hijacked by a pirate battleship (for lack of other recurring antagonists) and forcefully boarded.
In an ensuing firefight, the hatchling gets scared and runs off. So, Samus has to explore this craft as a new area, collecting new power ups, etc. Eventually, you encounter a load-bearing final superboss guarding the hatchling. You destroy it, and in a last gasp, it destroys Samus' upgrades (or better yet, you have to sacrifice them to repair or power the ship for the escape).
Now, you have an explanation as to why the Pirates know the hatchling's whereabouts.
Now, of course there are purists. Because of them, this 'lost chapter' would have to be unlocked somehow. I leave that to your better judgment.
i think its kinda cool that the game can be awesome without them
Anyway, about the escape sequence. They're obviously a big part of Metroid today, but I don't think you should feel like it's obligatory. Do it if it suits the game. But remember, the environment probably still needs to be mostly intact, since Samus revisits SR388 in the intro of Fusion.
Challenge Mode would be epic. Please do this. :)
First of all, you're doing a great job with the project, it's amazing.
About the escape sequence, I vote for the hard mode/unlockable or whatever the others sugested
But I want to comment on another thing.
In Metroid Zero Mission, every time Samus fire the beam, she flashes in the corresponding color (yellow for normal beam, orange for long beam, blue for ice beam). I was just playing the Metroid: Confrontation, and watched the 3rd preview, but AM2R's Samus don't flash when she fire.
It's a minor detail, and I don't know if you really want it that way (nor if it's really a big deal), but here it is nonetheless.
Sorry if this has already been taken care of.
You think you've cleared out SR388 completely? How on earth could Samus possibly know how many Metroids were really left on SR388? Even if it detected the ones that were alive, how about the ones that were yet to be born?
YES! I propose a hatchery of sorts, thousands of unborn Metroids just laying there on the walls, on the floors, Samus realises she can't possibly leave SR388 until she has destroyed this hatchery. I will leave it up to you as to what type of boss you want to throw in here, but maybe the after effects of this destruction will cause another huge earthquake, the wall will break down and a load of lava will begin to flood the whole area. You have to also Escape the planet before the whole thing collapses, or said boss decides he wants to asplode.
I haven't seen you online in a while, so I figured you were pretty busy. I unfortunately don't feel good enough to contribute music for the project now, however I do want to help with any ideas and direction of the game and its music as a hardcore fan. Please get in touch, and please, anyone feel free to comment on my idea!
Anyways,Good Luck
Following your project has left me with a few questions. For instance, will you have bosses that are not the metroids? how much change to the environment and item counts? Will there be additional evolutions? (afterall, prime DID introduce us to the Hunter Metroid)
I noticed that you already made a change in the previews that I find exciting, you've increased the number of metroids that the player will be facing, you've advanced many areas, added new powerups and just gererally have gone above and beyond anything I've hoped for a remake.
now, first off, as a long time fan, I believe that the intentions behind the peacefull ending were very important, it wasn't just about all action and adventure, it was a long sigh of releaf that the horror was finally over. The game was dark, but not just because of the lonely environment, but because how Samus herself must feel. Samus wasn't sent to SR388 with noble intentions of protecting the galaxy from space pirates, she was sent with extermination orders because the Galactic Federation was afraid that Metroids would be harvested from the planet and used against them.
With this in mind, a sudden panicy escape would leave samus with no time for contemplation on her actions as she just destroys the last metroid. The ending, in my honest opinion, must remain the same.
Now as for a challenge mode, if you provide additional environmental creature related bosses (which I think would be awesome), then I propose a series of unlockable play styles. This has been mentioned, but I can't find the post as I look over this again, however, by unlockable you can't get to them without playing through the new game with the original ending. I propose a boss mode, as we know that the charge beam strikes with power just shy of a missile, and can damage bosses in just about every version of the games, the challenge mode would have a series of small escapes direct from boss to boss with NOTHING but the charge beam. That's a little extreme I know, but still, it does make a certain form of sense.
Now IF an escape sequence is placed into the game, why could it not be just a normal part before the queen, make the last save point a bastion, you cannot go back because as you go into the last areas, they backfill. What also comes to mind is, in super metroid, there are 2 "escape" sequences without timers that aren't even at the end of the game: when you acquire the speed booster, and when you are in Ridley's layer. You could make a series of small "escapes" to the end area to make a no holes barred fight with the queen. There IS no other way out, you have to go forward, but nothing is pushing you there, it's just your only option.
I appologize for the very long post, but I felt all of these points needed to be addressed.
I especially liked that you brought up how this is a darker game, in the fact that Samus is committing Xenocide on a Planetary level for "precautionary" reasons. I found it nice that Fusion showed the aftermath of such an ecological upheaval.
But then again, Samus doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to leaving things intact. Where ever Samus goes, explosions are sure to follow. Except for SR388, which, she leaves in total disarray after screwing up the ecosystem. (She vowed to come back and take out the planet later anyways)
Lets have an orgy!!!
leave it without an escape secuence please!!!....
thanks for your work!!
---------------wolf