Monday, September 14, 2009

To escape or not to escape (sequence)

In the last post there was a very interesting suggestion by Palamon: A final escape sequence after the Queen fight. It´s true, the planet is succeptible to earthquakes caused by Metroids, and killing the biggest one of them all could easily cause some disaster.

Ok, but you (supposedly) have Gravity Suit by the time you reach the end, and lava isn´t much of a threat now. If the escape is going to be dramatic, it should be more menacing than lava and some falling rocks. And making so would deviate too much from the original game, IMHO. The moment you first see the hatchling, and peacefully reach the surface is a classic scene.

I might consider making an escape sequence for "Challenge Mode", a special mode for hardcore players. I´d like to hear your oppinions about this.

About the progress: I´m starting with the AI of the Zeta Metroids. I had to make a custom animation system, since there are separate body parts with different numbers of frames. Using the built-in variables was impossible.
Right now the Zetas can only walk, soon they´ll have some cool attacks (as soon as I start animating those). All of my time is being dedicated to these creatures, so there wasn´t much progress in the level design part.

Sorry for the lack of updates, there´s not much to report lately, since a single enemy animation and AI takes too much time to make so little progress. Like always, comments and suggestions are welcome.

96 comments:

Anonymous said...

Great to hear from you! I'm AmyYatesRIP from the MHQ Forums! I hope you get the Zetas done so you can do the Omegas and the rest of the game. Godspeed!

gmsephiroth said...

Awesome. I just now heard about this from some random post on a random forum, and I really have to applaud the work you're doing. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

MetroidMan347 said...

Hey doc!
Nice project! I think this is so awesome. I have a similar project for Prime, if you want, check it out at http://mp2dnew.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Maybe you should make it so that the Queen Metroid takes away everything you DON'T start with in Super Metroid as it dies(ala Prime 1).


Then you could have an escape sequence PRIOR to finding the hatchling, as without the Gravity Suit lava poses a threat. Once you get to the surface area the lave could stop, having filled ALL the caverns. Then on the surface before you get to your ship, you find the egg.


Either way you should end the game with only the items you have at the start of Super Metroid.

Arttemis said...

I love that you're trying to keep the game true to the original. Please do this - just like how I love when "special" cuts of any classic movie includes the original mode as well for comparison.

As for any additional/revamped content, that's phenomenal and perfect for a "challenge" mode!

Michael Power said...

I like the idea of there being an escape sequence after the Queen battle, but you're right in that calmly reaching the surface is a unique moment in the series.

Maybe alter the map a bit so that you're thrown into an escape immediately after fighting the Queen, going along a new alternate route, and having it end when you reach the Metroid hatchling?

Karrde said...

Indeed. If you wanna make a challenge mode of sorts have an escape bit, that's cool. But for the normal play, there shouldn't be one. I'd have to agree that the beautiful escape sequence (along with one of the best Metroid songs ever) is one of Metroid 2's signature bits.

Neocrypter said...

cant wait its almost about to be done.

Anonymous said...

No escape after the queen. Not every metroid game needs one.

That reminds me of something else, though. In the original, the hatchling allows you to escape by cutting through some strange blocks that are in your way. I always thought that those blocks were some kind of hard resin that the metroids built their hives out of, much like the alien nest in "Aliens." This would explain why the baby metroid can melt through it and Samus can't, since it has the natural ability to modify that stuff.

So, could you make the queen's lair look all organic and gigeresque, and have the hatchling melt through some walls of bony resin?

Corwin said...

As a challenge mode thing, sure, since anybody playing challenge mode isn't here for the atmosphere, but I'd leave out any such thing for 'regular' play. It was always a nice touch in the original game.

Turtle said...

Well, you could always put an escape in before the end of the game a la Super/Zero Mission, although I'm not sure where it would fit... perhaps you could add an escape sequence with every earthquake, at least with the ones before you get the gravity suit.

Also, excellent project, it looks very promising. The fact that you're doing it with Game Maker is even more impressive. I'd love to see the codes you use for some tricky functions in Metroid.

Anonymous said...

I can't wait for the game to come out! I don't think the game should have an escape sequence, the calm ending after you defeat the queen is already awsome.

I think that metroid2 is quite playable, and that you should add alot of details and things that could make the game more interesting for the people who already played metroid2, I think your going on the right direction with that already. Good luck!

GringoHisopo1993 said...

Te aconsejo que termines el Super Metroid Eris para que te des una pequeña idea. Pero te aconsejo de que para que sea un poco mas original e imprencionante pudieras poner para poder rescatar a otros mas por ejemplo el avestrus de super metroid valla corriendo y destrullendo cosas a su paso para que puedas pasar los como si fueran conejos que bayan saltando como ellos lo hacen y se metan en algun lugar donde no se ve asi como en la parte de el demo que has lanzado cuando se coge el super misil o el spring ball y pases por alli mientras te persiguen el avestruz, los conejos, y la cria metroid.

Espero que te tomes en cuenta mi comentario.

Me disculpas por ponerlo en español.

Squire Muldune the 3rd said...

I understand what your saying... dont wanna do what has already been done in the great "escape" Why not pull a page from Zero Mission?

For example.

Have the classic Metriod 2 sequence with running baby metroid to the surface and have the original end and make things seem hunky dory, everythings fine until you take off when the meta ridley has been stalking you throughout the game looking for the moment to strike and finds that time to attack your ship as you fly away from the planet. Escape sequence after a new boss battle and hop into an escape pod?

I'm not sure if thats what you'd like to do... but just an idea. I kinda like having the obligatory escape sequence in metroid games personally, but I could do with a more tribute to metroid 2 instead.

Either way you're doing an amazing job and applaud you! Keep up the good work!!

Anonymous said...

I'm glad you're still feeling sensible about not ruining the original ending. I liked the relaxed ending you got in Metroid 2 with the baby hatchling. If you want to add that escape scene as an additional mode, fine... but leave the original ending intact too for those of us who want to see it that way.

Anonymous said...

Squire Mulden... terrible idea. I think I'd like a short escape sequence for a challenge mode, but your idea is just completely without creativity or originality. It's been done once; why do it again? Ridley wasn't in M2 because he was being dead (and in M3... he got better). No use dragging him into things when you've already got an imposing final boss, and one of the most challenging at that.

Anonymous said...

I don't think Ridley was dead during M2, seeing as he survived you beating him to death 4 times prior to Return of Samus

Joshua said...

I do enjoy the idea for the escape
on the challenge mode only.

perhaps you could
make Samus revert to her Zero suit for this challenge?

that way everything kills SUPER fast.

But in any case
I am glad to see there is progress
even if its just some wonderful AI.

Anonymous said...

I don't really understand why there would be an escape sequence. The queen wouldn't be intelligent enough to rig the planet to blow up or anything :p

Zas said...

I had only read the title when i thought, "no". If you were in a hurry because the whole place is falling on you, and a random metroid jumped out of it's egg, wouldn't you immediately shoot anything that came in front of you?

Samus needs time to realize that the metroid is harmless.

The only way the queen would be able to start an escape sequence would be that it had grown so much that it has got stuck in that passage. The walls have been weakened by erosion and when Samus kills the queen it's body is not anymore supporting the weight of the structures above it. The place starts falling apart.

This could actually happen after meeting the infant metroid, "You kill the queen. You see the ceiling over it shatter a bit. You go to the next room. You meet the baby metroid. You see the rest of the ceiling, above the way back to the queen, fall down blocking the way back. Time to escape."

Now that I came up with that, I'm not sure about my answer anymore. Your choice.

Good Luck

Anthony said...

I think it is a great idea.
Having an escape sequence doesn't necessarily mean that entire planet/ecosystem the metroids are living in has to be destroyed.
I dont see a problem with having an escape sequence from a "cave in". Samus escaping through an exit by the skin of her teeth as the ceiling crumbles around her, is a great idea for challenge mode imo.

Spike said...

Im all for a special mode. Like: Original Mode just plays the game in modern graphics and a map. and a remix mode, where you add stages, a timer BEFRORE you reach the hatchling. you can be srtipped of all your stuff and just finish the game with the items you started or in the zero suit maybe? you then run into the hatchling and escape peacefully. a remix mode can add challenges and whatever stuff that doesnt fit into the orignal game and its not that much more work. just add a variable to some new things and youre good to go.

Oy said...

I agree. Don't put the countdown timer at the end. Although it's not as dramatic as most Metroids, ROS's ending lead rather easily into Super, which started with a countdown.
Challange mode sounds fun though, so feel free to deviate as much as you want from the original there.
Hope things work out well for you. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Oy

nemetfox said...

Just my opinion, but here's a solution.

If it sounds fun, try it.
If it is fun, keep it.
If it's not fun, junk it.

Anonymous said...

Yo opino sinceramente que cuantos menos cambios innecesarios se le hagan al juego original mejor y eso que no soy un gran purista pero un remake debe mantener la esencia original en cierto modo. El final calmado es uno de los grandes momentos.

marlon said...

You have nothing to apologize for. Your making an A+ quality game ON YOUR OWN, *and* your making regular updates. Can't wait to see the finished product, as long as it takes. Do you know of any good literature links, on making games with Game Maker?

Fox Cutter said...

I think keeping the end as is, with no escape, is the better choice. The ending is nice, and it's all about the hatching helping you to get out.

If you really want a count down, put it in the middle of the game.

There's that one point in the original where your forced to loop around a zone to clear it out a second time, that might be a good place for a count down. The lava has already come up to trap you...

Neocrypter said...

that will make a nice epic scene a metroid hatchling help out samus to her ship

Anonymous said...

Another idea, assuming no timed escape.

Have the baby metroid clear some passages for you to move forward, as in the original. But also have rooms full of flying enemies that the baby metroid is afraid to pass (they're quite vulnerable as larvae). When you get to those places, have it hang back and make really cute "scared" noises until Samus kills them, at which point it chirps happily and keeps leading the way.

Would be a great way of putting more daaaaaaw in the sequence, and makes the return to Samus' ship more of a cooperative effort between the two, since they each remove different obstacles.

SpiderTECH said...

A lot of people are saying the calm ending is epic and beautiful. I personally disagree. I think it's too slow and doesn't fit with the game. 1st you have earthquakes.. for some reason earthquakes happen after every group of metroids. What comes to my mind is it just coincidence or is there a more sinister reason. And also what I think everybody is forgetting about is that there is a big earthquake in the original after you defeat the Queen. 2nd is the lava rising and falling throughout the game, which makes me think that the planet is very unstable and that there just might be some kind of eruption at the end. And 3rd you have this big loud (typical metroid) music playing when you battle the queen, then slow melodic music for the baby and then climatic Credits music. It just doesnt fit. Climatic battle to just stops with the baby. I think it needs a big climatic finale. You battle the Queen, you find the Baby, then the planet goes through a global volcanic eruption, and you must save the baby metroid and survive the eruption which leads to the big loud credits music. See how it all just flows. You can also look at it this way which i just realized while typing this that in Super Metroid you can actually choose to save your helper friends that showed you the wall jump and speed jump that later show up in fusion.

Zooneyboy said...

Well like all game remakes there's extra. Like in zero mission there was the whole space pirate mothership. I think it would go like that one guy said and have risky attack u since there's ariginally no risky in the game. That's were u could fight kraid and ridley

Theo said...

is it possible for you to make a MacOS-friendly version?
i'd really appreciate it :3

chaoslord4200 said...

I have an idea, you can keep both. My idea is that the calm ending stays with finding the metroid hatchling because its a rare and great feeling in the series, and fans love it. And we can also put an escape sequence somewhere as well because fans like that too, im thinking.... to use the ceres space station somewhere in the ending, and u can play around in there and when u fight ridley with only a power suit, like she turned off her powerups or something (find some plot twist) and as you escape the base, as you leave, make it say: "To Be Continued In Super Metroid...." Well thats just my idea XD hope you like it :]

Russell said...

Here's my idea for the escape sequence: you remember in the original Metroid 2 how right after you kill the Queen, there's an earthquake that lets you proceed to the hatchling, and then the hatchling eats away some of the vegetation in order to allow you to escape? I think what would be cool would be something closer along the lines to that, except with more puzzle elements to it. Perhaps the player could actually control the hatchling at certain areas of the escape sequence, and would have to go off away from Samus for a little while, fending off enemies, eating vegetation, and solving little puzzles that would in affect allow Samus to proceed to her ship. No time limit or anything like that, just a fun and somewhat challenging puzzle sequence at the end involving the player controlling both Samus and the Hatchling. I think this idea would bring something fresh to the game while still remaining true to the original. Also, consider the possibility of perhaps a secret optional boss at this point...

xCYBERKIDx said...

How about leaving Planet SR388 and then going to that space station, Ceres(idk if that's how you spell it) and sending the metroid hatchling to the scientist. Doesn't sound fun but it would be like zero mission where they add a whole new level but with more obsticles and creatures in there.

Sudtrap said...

You could always mix things up, and force Samus to climb ALL the way up the normal tunnels she came down to escape. That would make things interesting.

I personally like the idea of it being a challenge mode thingie. :)
Mayhaps, challenge mode is a little more super metriod, with the possible sequence breaking. Or maybe you revamp some of the rooms, changing the gameplay some.

My personal favorite thing about SM was sequence breaking. It let me play the game at my own pace. (and then replay it again at a different pace)

Crovirus said...

I would suggest one thing:
How about, when playing in Challenge Mode and finally defeating the Queen, her final attack disrupts your suit upgrades, as you are about to leave with the hatchling the lava starts rising and of course you need to get without the upgrades, with hatchling removing certain obstacles out of the way.

Dudeman said...

I do not think the game needs an escape segment in the end... (challenge mode sounds cool)

However what if in that new area under area 4 when you get the item at the end it does something like...

!!security compromised!!

And that area starts to blow up

It would be even cooler to go back and check that place out after it blows for more secrets

As always what ever you decide to go with is fine with me and I cant wait to play. :D

Anonymous said...

I like that idea too but here is what should happen..
-bobsam-

"Challenge"-Countdown

"Hard"(If one)-A little earth quake happens and the route is blocked off anf you have to find another way to get to the ship

"Normal"-The Normal escape route(If Hard doesn't exsist this escape would be the same as "Hard")

"Easy"-The Normal escape route

Anonymous said...

You know what if we had the lava ebdng you could make it so the metroid dies and you have to restart the battle...

Anonymous said...

I don't exactly know what you mean by the challenge mode, if it is just a "Hard Mode", or if it will be like an alternative mode, with alternative level design and such, but my idea is that you could make one escape sequence as a extra level or mode, like that special modes in Brawl(100 Man Brawl, Cruel Brawl, etc). This way you could even create various escape sequences, and you could unlock them by progressing in the game, unlocking certain achievements, etc.
Continue the good work doc!

Palamon said...

First off, Thank you for considering my idea. I really admire how you use this blog as a tool to design and fine-tune your game instead of going at it all alone. It really shows that you care about the quality and how the final product will be received.


As far as the escape sequence goes, I think keeping the tranquil slow ending for normal game play while having an escape sequence in Challenge/Hard Mode is a great idea.
That way, it keeps that nostalgia of M2 the first time you play with a gentle exploration of the final area as you leave, but when you go back for a second time, looking for a greater challenge, the game doesn't end anti-climatically as you just go through the motions with no new challenges.

Either way, there should be a quite, tranquil moment between killing the queen and finding the hatchling. Just right after finding the hatchling and breathing a sigh of relief that the tough part is over, then you realize that those earthquakes was part of a large cave in or volcanic eruption and you have to get out of there.

If there is a nature-caused escape sequence, I don't think there should be a timer. I think it would be cool to have the escape sequence actually kill you through lava/rock damage if you take too long.

As for the gravity suit, remember, the gravity suit doesn't protect you from all lava damage. In Super metroid, the bubbly orange lava in Ridely's Lair (that killed the chrocmire) dealt damage to you. In the final area, the lava could be that.

The metroid nest could be in the middle of a dormant volcano. The space jumping area right after the final save spot would suggest that it is part of the main chamber that has been sealed off.
That way, in the escape sequence, you are running from super-heated lava which will damage you.


As for the escape sequence itself, I liked how the larva could cut through special blocks and I really liked the idea of the blocks being hard resin and making the queen's lair look all organic and grotesque.

This way, you can calmly learn how to direct the larva's movement as you navigate the maze to get out on normal mode, but when you play it again "timed" in Hard mode, it will be more a test of skill.

Anonymous said...

Just to comment, leave the escape sequence out of (at the very least) normal gameplay so those who wish to play the game with the same atmosphere that they enjoyed (myself included) won't be disappointed.

However...

I actually support the suggestion of making samus lose (most) of her items when the ending sequence happens, even in the tranquil original version. In Metroid Prime 1, a small reactor blast did this to her in regards to the power ups she had from Metroid 1. (This was retconned a bit with the addition of Zero Mission, but still). Perhaps when the Queen dies, she either deals one last unexpected attack, or maybe can cause a massive explosion that damages most of samus' items (save perhaps the spider ball and the space jump.)

It'd be a nice way to show a bit of continuity between Metroid II and Super Metroid.

Anonymous said...

as far as i remember the gravity suit protected you from lava but not acid

Anonymous said...

as far as i remember the gravity suit protected you from lava but not acid

NFITC1 said...

Challenge mode escape sequence would be great as long as it didn't change the ending. If you do add it, the route should just lead you to the surface and not all the way back to the ship. That way, the hatchling could be found outside and the story would be preserved. Then there could just be a ZM-esque cutscene/slideshow showing Samus taking it back to her ship.

The non-challenge mode(s) should be just like the original game.

The Ant said...

Maby you should just have a chalenge mode after you beat the game with less alpha metroids, tougher enemys and an escape sequence, but if it takes to long to make and escape sequence, you could just release the game and update it later

sorry for the spelling

The Ant said...

Hmm, maby because your so deep into the planet, the escape could be longer the the original. So a little while after you find the hatchling theres an earthquake and lava starts rising, it could be from some kind of chozo machine that was left behind, and you have to escape. But eventualy you find an alternate rout or the cave collapses blocking out the lava. THUS leaving samus and the metroid to finish there peacefull escape, and when they reach the top you could see a volcano erupting in the backround or something, showing that the magma eventualy found a way out. This way theres an escape sequence and the peacefull ending.

Kirk Bradford Myers said...

Here's an interesting suggestion for the escape sequence. Deviate just a little bit from the game and make the Metroid hatchling hatch JUST BEFORE you meet the Queen! Here's how it works: You know the drama that builds up in the original game as you've got one Metroid left on your counter and you're in that last hallway of spikes space-jumping towards the Queen's room, right? Build up the same type of anticipation and dread, but when the player reaches the Queen's room, all they see is a single egg, which immediately hatches the baby Metroid. Samus, being the first living thing it sees, latches on to her and thinks she is it's mother. We all breath a sigh of relief...so THIS was the last Metroid? Heh heh. Suddenly, the wall busts open and terror stabs you in the heart as the mamma jamma of all Metroids makes herself known, and she is ANGRY! The baby metroid runs away in fright and all hell breaks loose and the battle begins!

The Queen Metroid's destruction casues her to explode so violently that Samus is knocked back against the wall and damaged to the point where she begins receiving internal readings that all acquired upgrades to her suit have been eliminated to compensate for the damage. (This would explain why she begins with nothing in Super Metroid. Hey, they did it in Metroid Prime, why not here?) She also begins receiving internal readings of increased seismatic activity due to the Queen Metroid's destruction that will cause a massive volcanic eruption in her local area in three minutes. Samus is now forced to escape with her life with none of the upgrades she started out with. Lava and falling rocks WILL be a problem!

Once she reaches and enters her ship, the baby Metroid reappears either from the splitting surface of the planet or from somewhere offscreen and follows her in just as the hatch closes, as if to say "Help me, mommy, get me out of here!"

Samus' ship takes off, and the rest is history. Final cutscene, roll the credits, see you next mission! :)

Neocrypter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Take the above posters idea, it's amazing!

Anonymous said...

I will say is that we have already suggested many of the same ideas and we really should be commenting on our own ideas or about other peoples ideas and give them credit instead of claiming it as there own. Please no flamming or trolling here.

Steve said...

It isn't Metroid without an escape sequence.

Russell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Russell said...

Alright, the best idea so far in my opinion would be a mixture of Kirk Bradford Myers' idea and The Ant's idea. The game would proceed with KBM's idea until the escape sequence was initiated, and then you would transition into The Ant's idea which would be, after the escape sequence, a falling chunk of rocks blocks the lava from rising any further, and then the metroid hatchling comes out of his hiding and proceeds to eat away at the surrounding vegetation to allow Samus to peacefully proceed to her ship. That way you get the best of both worlds, fun escape sequence, and peaceful ending. And I still would consider adding an optional boss at this point, like maybe a warrior chozo that's gone mad from years of isolation in order to protect himself from the metroids. He could even have his own powersuit, since after all, the chozo did invent them. The chozo warrior would try to kill the harmless metroid hatchling in order to finally rid the galaxy of every last metroid, and of course, Samus, knowing the baby metroid is harmless, and realizing the potential of studying the creature, would have to stop him. Samus could either choose to fight the Mad Chozo Warrior, and by defeating him get the best ending to the game, or she could choose to not fight, and proceed peacefully to her ship, thereby getting a still good, but not best ending. Sure, these ideas deviate slightly from the original Metroid II storyline, but the question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to make simply an enhanced port of Metroid II, or do you want to make an actual REMAKE of Metroid II?
-RBM

Shadow said...

i think like someone staited before, escape sequence in normal game, right after queen make it so that she hurts ya loose stuff sans what you has in super metroid lava a threat escape but you reach calm spot after danger zone find metroid then calm walk out the place ala the orignal nice compromise see?

Shadow said...

i think like someone staited before, escape sequence in normal game, right after queen make it so that she hurts ya loose stuff sans what you has in super metroid lava a threat escape but you reach calm spot after danger zone find metroid then calm walk out the place ala the orignal nice compromise see?

Kalahiton said...

Perhaps when you make the difficulties, you can knock it up a notch for Hard or Normal and put the escape sequence in there, giving it a slight bit more replay value. Or take note from Zero Mission, where if you got 100% of the items, the last fight was harder than if you hadn't, so that's what would trigger the escape sequence. It's a consistent theme in Metroid games, and I'd be somewhat disappointed if there weren't one, but I think you're doing an AMAZING job and would be happy with the final product either way.

Palamon said...

Kalahiton, good idea about the 100% run and making the boss fight harder.

In the Queen fight, I'm assuming the ball bombing in the belly trick will be in there (too cool to not include it)

For the 100% run, make it so the Queen does not swallow you, so you can't take the easy way out with that trick and have to kill her harder attack pattern with just missiles; so at least concept wise, using all those missiles to kill the queen will definitely cause a cave in and thus an escape sequence.

Speaking of % runs and bombing the belly trick, I really hope a 15% (or other low % run) will be planned for in the game like it was in zero mission. I really enjoyed it and it really brought in the re-playability.

Anonymous said...

Having Samus lose all her stuff at the end of the game would just be anticlimactic, and be a slap in the player's face. Best leave it to the imagination how she loses her items, as almost every game in the series has done.

Also, while having an escape sequence might be cool, the relaxed, scenic exit is a must-have. The idea of having an escape sequence after the queen and before the egg, though creative, would probably feel out of place, not to mention nonsensical (why would the egg chamber not be near the queen?).

Best leave the escape for Hard Mode.

SamusRisng said...

I say that it shouldn't have an escape sequence, the original Metroid II didn't and it was still a great game, also like you said, it would be kinda hard to have it make sense and be dangerous at the same time and one of the reasons I like the Metroid series so much is that everything falls into place or has an explination.

mar789 said...

maybe you can put acid
i want to play the gamee

Firespawn7 said...

Personally, I dont think there should be an escape sequence. Once you kill the Queen Metroid and the baby metroid hatches, I always liked the feeling of serenity at that point and I don't think it should be changed. Besides, SR388 doesn't blow up in the Metroid series storyline, so making it blow up, erupt or collapse (the cave I mean) would be unheard of. And if there was an escape scene, wouldn't the Gravity suit stop lava damage? Just a thought.

I've been following you project since the beginning and I cannot wait until you finish it! It's truly going to be amazing!

Racheakt said...

Interesting points, all. Allow me to present some of my own for humble consideration...

You could have the space pirats arrive and fight your way out- possibly with the help of the hatchling. After all, how did the pirats know the hatchling would be at the science station?

some people have suggested that you loose your gear, I suggest you loose gear in increments as you 'sustain damage' on your way out. Thus, the fights continue to get harder as you escape.

Yes, the hatchling seqence was classic, but I think this option will combine both the classic feel and a challenge that longtime players would love.

And yes, it ought to be unlocked in hard mode only. Thus preserveing the replay value.

Anonymous said...

The game looks AWESOME when is it going to be released?

Simon said...

Hi! Always cool to see that you are keeping up good progress. This is still one of my most highly anticipated games.

About your escape sequence idea, I think you have it spot on! I think that it should stay true to the classic game, and not have a countdown, just because that was the whole point of the original. However, an optional countdown escape sequence - a really difficult one - would be amazing.

Keep up the good work, anyway :)

Anonymous said...

I think it is a good idea I also want to suggest a Boss Rush Mode. I think you should be familiar with the concept.

cameron said...

Honestly the only thing I never really liked about the bigger metroid's was the fact that they could fly through walls. That wasn't that fun. . . but the metroid at the end of Fusion wasn't so bad (except he was really slow) so some variation of that would be cool. I can't wait to see this game come to life because I always wanted a remake of II after the first one was remade. And if you wanted to, you could add an ending like there was in the first one(zero mission). That would be cool too.

Anonymous said...

Great work, since it seems like a touchy subject I would just keep the original ending in there and offer the escape sequence as a challenge mode. This way it is a win-win situation, the purists get the original ending and the action fans still get an escape sequence as a bonus challenge :)

Anonymous said...

Boss rush???

Metroid 2 is a boss rush in its self... metroid after metroid after metroid... you never know when they will pop out

Are you going to have a fan art submission for the endings or are you just going to get help like you did with hyrule_swordsman?

SpiderTECH said...

I don't know if this was ever mentioned in earlier blogs but when I first played the OG Metroid II on the OG Game Boy (ahh the good old days of the monochrome green screen) I loved the scare factor of not knowing when the metroids would come up or what was around the next corner. But as much fun as the game still is I always thought what if the game was a little more random with where the Metroids would pop up. Change it up for the Challenge mode. Make the classic mode Predictable and the Challenge mode not so much. Maybe you would walk into a empty cave, with nothing in it only to be surprised by the Metroid when you turn to walk out. And have a bunch of these caves throughout and randomize which ones have the metroids and which ones don't. I know this would be more for the earlier levels and not the one we are currently in but I was just thinking about it as i was playing a IPS patched colorized version of the original.

Palamon said...

I like that idea SpiderTech, I remember one instance in the original where you have to go around in a loop (because lava seals you in) and after you complete the loop, back in an area where there were only metroid shells, there was now an omega metroid.

The remake could have similar instances where the metroid doesn't show up on the first time past the area, but when you are forced to back track (like after killing another metroid at the end) you encounter a metroid that was hiding on your first pass through. This would be a nice scripted surprise to challenge mode.

Another interesting idea would be to have an area where the metroid hangs out (like 3-4 adjacent rooms) and each room has a set random chance that a metroid encounter occurs, so you never know where the metroid will show up.

Obviously, some tweaks to the occurrence % should be done to insure the player will encounter the beast on the normal pass through the region so they don't have to "hunt down" the random encounter like you would with RPG's. I think that would add a neat random element to certain areas.

Anonymous said...

What I really liked about metroid two is that it was creepy, misterious, and quite dark. Some other metroid games focused more on action, and things like that. You should make the game creepy and sometimes leave the music out like in the old game. That's my main worry about this remake.

You can make the rooms darker or with less color as you go deeper underground. That would be a cool and creepy effect.

Anonymous said...

that'd be a cool idea. then you could add the x-ray visor as an item which would not only assist in tracking down items, but also in seeing in certain caves that are almost completely dark.

Anonymous said...

Will you add some new upgrades, though? You mentioned the Gravity Suit, and that wasn't in the original. Will you make it sort of like Zero Mission, in that it takes the original and adds more variaty to it?

And do beams stack or can you get an upgrade to stack them?

Sir_Poeta said...

Hola doc!
no encuentro buena la idea de crear un escape para am2r ya que el verdadero metroid 2 no lo tiene, y se romperia la enorme serenidad que uno siente en el encuentro amistoso entre Samus y el bebé Metroid (que más tarde se sacrifica por ella en Metroid 3), lo que con más ansias espero es la remasterización de esa parte del encuentro, si lo rompen, no solo para mí perderá el gusto, sino que yo creo que también para muchos que valoran Metroid 2 como el mejor de los juegos de metroid por aquel encuentro...
La música que más me gusta de ese Metroid (y todos los días escucho en mp3, es la música de La Guaridad de la Reina Metroid (Queen Metroid's Lair), ojalá puedan crear la música de este sector tan excelentemente como lo hicieron en el Metroid 2 original, y que al oirla uno sienta la misma emosión, ya que ese sector de SR388 equivale a Turian de Zebes, también hay Metroids y hay una gran sensación de estar acercandose más y más al final, ya que la cantidad de los Metroid está cerca de cero.

Saludos

Sir_Poeta.

js1210 said...

Just a quick comment on wheter or not to include an escape sequence. I say no. The whole feeling is "Ok, I just beat the Queen and now all the Metroids except this one are dead, now the world is peace and all is good" a fast-paced escape sequence would just ruin that atmosphere. What would be pretty freking awesome is an ending scene where Samus is walking with the baby Metroid in her arms through the planet viewing all the areas that Samus fought through, except now that areas are void of dangers and enemies. This would be pretty awesome as you get to remeber all the areas and it would just put the icing on top of the game.

Anonymous said...

about the ascape sequence, i think you should stick to the original.

Ive never played the original but from what ive heard it is awesome as it is allready

Anonymous said...

how bout something like from the prime series intros. some kind of explosion blows off your equipment.

Anonymous said...

Try this:

Keep the ending the same. Do everything they do in the game, even the slow fade when you enter the ship.

Now, to answer the dilemma of "its metroid so it should have piretes and ridly and an escape countdown!' is thus; add a 'lost chapter.'

Maybe Samus is hijacked by a pirate battleship (for lack of other recurring antagonists) and forcefully boarded.

In an ensuing firefight, the hatchling gets scared and runs off. So, Samus has to explore this craft as a new area, collecting new power ups, etc. Eventually, you encounter a load-bearing final superboss guarding the hatchling. You destroy it, and in a last gasp, it destroys Samus' upgrades (or better yet, you have to sacrifice them to repair or power the ship for the escape).

Now, you have an explanation as to why the Pirates know the hatchling's whereabouts.

Now, of course there are purists. Because of them, this 'lost chapter' would have to be unlocked somehow. I leave that to your better judgment.

Anonymous said...

just cus its a metroid doesn't mean that it needs pirates or ridly

i think its kinda cool that the game can be awesome without them

Anonymous said...

First, I have to say, from everything I've seen of your work so far, this looks to be a phenomenal project. I look forward to seeing the final product.

Anyway, about the escape sequence. They're obviously a big part of Metroid today, but I don't think you should feel like it's obligatory. Do it if it suits the game. But remember, the environment probably still needs to be mostly intact, since Samus revisits SR388 in the intro of Fusion.

TheDeIiLlama said...

Here's an idea regarding a final escape sequence: Maybe you could keep the classic, peaceful ending of leaving with the Metroid Larva, but have the point leading up to the hatchling be a short little gauntlet where you need to escape from a collapsing corridor or something. I'd say that'd be a neat idea, but at the same time it might seem a bit forced so it's your call. I'll be playing the hell out of this once it's released regardless.

Challenge Mode would be epic. Please do this. :)

Game tester said...

I'v see a comment that tell that we could control the hatchling. What a great idea! whit puzzle and ennemies that you can absorb life. I'v also seen an optional boss for that hatchling, and I'v tink about a...Giant X parasite! Yes a giant X parasite! In fusion they tell that the metroid is the main predator of the x. What about an epic battle against tow great ennemie?

Luyren said...

Hi DoctorM64,

First of all, you're doing a great job with the project, it's amazing.

About the escape sequence, I vote for the hard mode/unlockable or whatever the others sugested

But I want to comment on another thing.

In Metroid Zero Mission, every time Samus fire the beam, she flashes in the corresponding color (yellow for normal beam, orange for long beam, blue for ice beam). I was just playing the Metroid: Confrontation, and watched the 3rd preview, but AM2R's Samus don't flash when she fire.

It's a minor detail, and I don't know if you really want it that way (nor if it's really a big deal), but here it is nonetheless.

Sorry if this has already been taken care of.

Darren said...

I have a great idea for the ending, I agree with an earlier post about a Zero Mission type ending, where you're forced to return to SR388.

You think you've cleared out SR388 completely? How on earth could Samus possibly know how many Metroids were really left on SR388? Even if it detected the ones that were alive, how about the ones that were yet to be born?

YES! I propose a hatchery of sorts, thousands of unborn Metroids just laying there on the walls, on the floors, Samus realises she can't possibly leave SR388 until she has destroyed this hatchery. I will leave it up to you as to what type of boss you want to throw in here, but maybe the after effects of this destruction will cause another huge earthquake, the wall will break down and a load of lava will begin to flood the whole area. You have to also Escape the planet before the whole thing collapses, or said boss decides he wants to asplode.

I haven't seen you online in a while, so I figured you were pretty busy. I unfortunately don't feel good enough to contribute music for the project now, however I do want to help with any ideas and direction of the game and its music as a hardcore fan. Please get in touch, and please, anyone feel free to comment on my idea!

Anonymous said...

Darren, I think your idea conflicts too much with the original story. Only because Samus would be killing a bunch of baby metroids after she had just decided to let a baby metroid live. I don't know, maybe it could work, but all in all I just don't like the idea. My honest opinion.

Darren said...

Well I figured Samus could at least take one baby metroid back with her, that would be in her ship or whatever.. but if she were to let thousands go unharmed..it'd be pointless. More Metroids would hatch and it'd not remove them all from SR388. Of course, it's just an idea. I feel it's better to speak up than stay quiet with ideas.

michael said...

The game sounds grat so far. Can't wait to play it! any chance there will be another demo? Metroid Confrontation does get a bit repetetive after a while.

Anyways,Good Luck

Desertskunk said...

I know that several very good opinions have been meantioned so far, and, while repetitive to repeat some of them, I do feel that it is important as a long time Metroid fan to place my input on the growing totem poll of good, and considerable ideas.
Following your project has left me with a few questions. For instance, will you have bosses that are not the metroids? how much change to the environment and item counts? Will there be additional evolutions? (afterall, prime DID introduce us to the Hunter Metroid)
I noticed that you already made a change in the previews that I find exciting, you've increased the number of metroids that the player will be facing, you've advanced many areas, added new powerups and just gererally have gone above and beyond anything I've hoped for a remake.
now, first off, as a long time fan, I believe that the intentions behind the peacefull ending were very important, it wasn't just about all action and adventure, it was a long sigh of releaf that the horror was finally over. The game was dark, but not just because of the lonely environment, but because how Samus herself must feel. Samus wasn't sent to SR388 with noble intentions of protecting the galaxy from space pirates, she was sent with extermination orders because the Galactic Federation was afraid that Metroids would be harvested from the planet and used against them.
With this in mind, a sudden panicy escape would leave samus with no time for contemplation on her actions as she just destroys the last metroid. The ending, in my honest opinion, must remain the same.
Now as for a challenge mode, if you provide additional environmental creature related bosses (which I think would be awesome), then I propose a series of unlockable play styles. This has been mentioned, but I can't find the post as I look over this again, however, by unlockable you can't get to them without playing through the new game with the original ending. I propose a boss mode, as we know that the charge beam strikes with power just shy of a missile, and can damage bosses in just about every version of the games, the challenge mode would have a series of small escapes direct from boss to boss with NOTHING but the charge beam. That's a little extreme I know, but still, it does make a certain form of sense.
Now IF an escape sequence is placed into the game, why could it not be just a normal part before the queen, make the last save point a bastion, you cannot go back because as you go into the last areas, they backfill. What also comes to mind is, in super metroid, there are 2 "escape" sequences without timers that aren't even at the end of the game: when you acquire the speed booster, and when you are in Ridley's layer. You could make a series of small "escapes" to the end area to make a no holes barred fight with the queen. There IS no other way out, you have to go forward, but nothing is pushing you there, it's just your only option.
I appologize for the very long post, but I felt all of these points needed to be addressed.

Palamon said...

Good points, Desertskunk.

I especially liked that you brought up how this is a darker game, in the fact that Samus is committing Xenocide on a Planetary level for "precautionary" reasons. I found it nice that Fusion showed the aftermath of such an ecological upheaval.

But then again, Samus doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to leaving things intact. Where ever Samus goes, explosions are sure to follow. Except for SR388, which, she leaves in total disarray after screwing up the ecosystem. (She vowed to come back and take out the planet later anyways)

Anonymous said...

I think putting an ending sequence might be a little dangerous based on the series. Usually after a end sequence the planet explodes. You have to remember that Metroid 4 - Fusion, The planet Sr388 still is in perfect condition. I would take it into consideration that Samus really only needs to leave planet SR388 because, All the metroids are dead and there really isn't any threat left. Until Fusion. But I think on a side note as a bonus feature you should have a Boss Rush Mode and a Possible Unlock-able by beating the game - Sound Test as a reward.

Anonymous said...

I think It should just be a peaceful escape but on hard mode a tunnel could collapse opening a much tougher path with an escape that eventually leads to the metroid.

playerman1230 said...

I had an idea, but it's not worth it. Maybe after you rescue the hatchling, the back of the tunnel should collapse. And when you're almost out of the volcano, maybe some lava should rise, and when you get onboard the ship and take off, you might add a cutscene for the volcano exploding.

Anonymous said...

great idea ''Playerman1230"

Lets have an orgy!!!

Anonymous said...

another escape secuence}??.....almost all metroid games have one, and i liked the fact that Metroid II didn't had one....also the scene where the baby hatch and you leave the planet so quietly is perfect and so cool that way......
leave it without an escape secuence please!!!....
thanks for your work!!
---------------wolf